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Genesis: Reloaded
Posted by UnderCover, 5729 days, 8 hours and 48 minutes ago
Category: Utopia Announcements
The current round of Genesis is expected to end this Friday, February 13th. The following changes are planned (some of these could change over the next few days):

* Military system will be redone; The 4 units will be as follows (names will vary by race):

(Name, Strength, Approx Cost, Maintenance)
Soldier: 1/1, $75, $1gc / 4 troops
Archer: 3/2, $250, $1gc troops
Knight: 4/5, $600, $2gc / troop
Elite: */*, $1200, $4gc / troop

* Elites values will vary by race. These numbers are just estimates and can certainly be adjusted. The idea is to create a definite cost vs. space trade-off in the military units, while trying something new in eliminating the pure offense/defense units.

* Gains from attacks will likely be impacted a little by the overall relative sizes of the two kingdoms involved. Attacking a big province in a big kingdom will provide higher gains than attacking a big province in a small kingdom.

* Ambush will be improved; Fog might negate War Spoils as well.

* We're going to look at the idea of "building investments" as an option to increase the efficiency of land for a cost. More details will be posted when available.

These are the major changes we're looking at. We'll also likely add things like a spell or operation targeting prisoners and other similar changes - those will also be posted when determined.

Mehul (Original Post)

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Readers' Comments

Page: Split
AuthorComment
sickbastard
Posts: 10
(08-Feb-2004 11:44 pm)
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Interesting
Sabe TA
Posts: 52
(08-Feb-2004 11:47 pm)
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Very Interesting indeed
gensui
Posts: 18
(08-Feb-2004 11:54 pm)
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hope its better :P
edog
(Posted as edog NI)
Posts: 49
(08-Feb-2004 11:56 pm)
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Wow, I wonder how the new units will work...
ArKDavE
Posts: 37
(08-Feb-2004 11:59 pm)
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haha

CHANGES ARE ALWAYS GOOD!

I CANT WAIT..
daemon4
Posts: 8
(09-Feb-2004 12:12 am)
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i dont like it... interesting, but i dont think itll work for me
Zelun
Posts: 38
(09-Feb-2004 12:42 am)
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now im gonna have to play the next age of genesis :(
Light Blue
(Posted as Brianxcw)
Posts: 157
(09-Feb-2004 12:51 am)
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Yeah, me too. I think these changes are great. The Knight up there doesn't look too bad.
shagy2dawg
Posts: 15
(09-Feb-2004 12:55 am)
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wow... i like it :)
greenraider
Posts: 91
(09-Feb-2004 01:00 am)
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why would some1 want to negate war spoils?

it would be betta for the person getting hit if they did have war spoils so they can retal for more
ramza412
Posts: 15
(09-Feb-2004 01:01 am)
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wow, exciting changes, it will be fun
Dnguyen
Posts: 1
(09-Feb-2004 01:06 am)
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bah and i was just starting to get the hang of this game but like u said changes are always good
Happy Sid
(Posted as Bokke)
Posts: 14
(09-Feb-2004 01:16 am)
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Brilliant, something new at least :)
Tsachi
(Posted as tsachi)
Posts: 306
(09-Feb-2004 01:21 am)
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nice...cool...oldo GEN sucks :P those changes are looking good...
sparky wizzie
Posts: 75
(09-Feb-2004 02:31 am)
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finally more options with military^^ i'm lovin' it :D
Brother Blue RW
Posts: 62
(09-Feb-2004 03:15 am)
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wow, and i dont even bother playing the genesis server...dont have the time but now that is interesting!!
fatalot
Posts: 4
(09-Feb-2004 03:57 am)
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ahh say bye bye to all elite armies.
Banon2
Posts: 38
(09-Feb-2004 04:54 am)
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I doubt that highly fatalot
jorosar
Posts: 16
(09-Feb-2004 04:58 am)
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This looks really fun! This is the first set of changes in a while I'm looking forward to. :)
kitfox
Posts: 35
(09-Feb-2004 05:02 am)
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And how to attack a province when it has troops home?
Say it uses a third of each, knights, archers, elites.
How to hit that province?
At 1k acres, you will have like 6*2 + 6*5 + 6*(elite value, say 6) = 78 dpa, with only 18 military units per acre.

And we all know, that 20 military units is more likey, and most of them probably knights and lites.

Will mean like 100 dpa for everybody.

It would be nice, but then the attack system would have to be reworked.
Allinyourhead
Posts: 15
(09-Feb-2004 05:07 am)
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then everyone play t/m and explorer, that'll be fun
kitfox
Posts: 36
(09-Feb-2004 05:12 am)
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Maybe the attack gains and success should be reworked like the current buildings efficiency is now:

Not only success or failure, but sth like:

Crushing Victory (heavy losses for the enemy, fast army return)
victory (as usual)
Minor Victory (acreage gains like conquest)

Loss (no gains)
Failure (heavy loss of troops, longer time until army is back?)
Fauxpas (your army gets scattered, happiness decreases, men desert?)

And how about a new attack style:
Challenge

Your army challenges the opposing army, taking no land, but the winner takes captives, who serve in his own army from then on.

Like:
Attack an enemy successfully, and yuo wil get like 12-15% of his troops for your own army.
Michelin
(Posted as ToChicken)
Posts: 60
(09-Feb-2004 05:20 am)
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10-15%????? ever heard of over draft. Youre army wil go from 60% draft to over 65% making you drop an happines. Also if it is the same for aal troops you get 15% of a guys leets? What if he is full leets? You get 1500!!!! leets from an 900 acre prov. 20*900=18k troops ore something.

TM's are kinda screwed becuase a small prov can suicide on them whil the others can't do a thing. Good for the honor hunters.
dr3am
Posts: 25
(09-Feb-2004 05:33 am)
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hmm changes aren't that bad expect that i want more changes... it's just not enough... yeah and the DPA will jump really high...
twistedvampire
Posts: 7
(09-Feb-2004 05:48 am)
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oh boy this could be fun and very expensive with a all elite force there goes the cash flow with troops. Pezzies normal is 3gc and a knight is 2 gc and elites r ? not going to leave lot of gc laying around
Silver Fox
Posts: 203
(09-Feb-2004 07:01 am)
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* Military system will be redone; The 4 units will be as follows (names will vary by race):

(Name, Strength, Approx Cost, Maintenance)

Soldier: 1/1, $75, $1gc / 4 troops
Archer: 3/2, $250, $1gc troops
Knight: 4/5, $600, $2gc / troop
Elite: */*, $1200, $4gc / troop

===================

Go go, UtOrkfia
moonfriend
Posts: 86
(09-Feb-2004 07:21 am)
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The bottom-feeders are going to hate these changes. ^_^
illman11
Posts: 1
(09-Feb-2004 08:23 am)
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thieves and merchants gonna own this age,,,, money is all thats needed.....
Cogliostro
Posts: 172
(09-Feb-2004 08:30 am)
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wah, interesting military change..
ineser
Posts: 770
(09-Feb-2004 08:41 am)
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archer has 3/2 ?
isnt that def specs?
interesting changes :P
Invasion
Posts: 418
(09-Feb-2004 08:47 am)
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Attractive than wol and bf.
dbzbrolli
Posts: 4
(09-Feb-2004 10:05 am)
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Gains from attacks will likely be impacted a little by the overall relative sizes of the two kingdoms involved. Attacking a big province in a big kingdom will provide higher gains than attacking a big province in a small kingdom.


OMG I LOVE THIS, finally something to protect the awesome province in a noob ghetto like myself, mehul, I dont care what I say about you, this is awesome!!!
Elminster
Posts: 36
(09-Feb-2004 11:15 am)
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Wow... he certainly is changing a lot lately... :D
peppermi
Posts: 4
(09-Feb-2004 11:37 am)
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yea, i like it
but does it mean that the elites will be very strong?
darkfo0lz
Posts: 11
(09-Feb-2004 11:57 am)
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hmmmmm...intersting very intersting
Piro
Posts: 22
(09-Feb-2004 12:24 pm)
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Definitely different, I like the attack into a bigger kingdom equal bigger gains.
burro
Posts: 2
(09-Feb-2004 12:35 pm)
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[quote]Attacking a big province in a big kingdom will provide higher gains than attacking a big province in a small kingdom.[/quote]

And again, the game gets more boring. Ill definately play dicer and just whore NW..
blizfire
Posts: 5
(09-Feb-2004 01:03 pm)
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i don't think it'll really solve the elite massing problem, sure, ppl will now get less elites and some knights, but when you are big, the question of money vs. military doesn't exist, you have to always get military, otherwise u'll get hit. they need other ideas for money to come into play
Shadowdancer
Posts: 1
(09-Feb-2004 01:13 pm)
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Well, I guess the orc is back in the house with a 5 def spec
neotalon
Posts: 2
(09-Feb-2004 02:18 pm)
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yes, more ideas for money.

but then again, he talked about an investment system where you could invest in your lands and raise their efficiency, that seems like a great idea. I'd love to see how it works. because if you could raise efficiency of your lands, then you would be getting more money, and more results from your lands (you wouldn't need as many farms for example)

I think these changes will be interesting, I can't wait to read more.
arhmaad
Posts: 94
(09-Feb-2004 03:37 pm)
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this is a big gain for ORCs, because now they have the 5 defense spec, and still have the good elite
Dragonspirit2
Posts: 1
(09-Feb-2004 04:06 pm)
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yeh orc will be better wuth the def well its a good idea though, i like it.
Im0Patience
Posts: 2
(09-Feb-2004 04:16 pm)
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You don't know whether orc will keep their nice leet ;)

And some of you complained about the high DPA you'll get, well. People will get a similary high OPA, will probably balance things out.. Good with some new specs. Nice job Mehul!
AIMSidewinder
Posts: 16
(09-Feb-2004 04:51 pm)
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That looks interesting, makes a lot more sence too. I might actualy play genisis this age. I like it Mehul! Impose these in the next age on BF!!!
Fuel
Posts: 1
(09-Feb-2004 05:30 pm)
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i have to take a dukie, but as for the changes, they will take some getting used too.
Xenophobia
Posts: 17
(09-Feb-2004 06:59 pm)
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Looks like mehul is gonna ruin another age... Its quite a shame
STOP
Posts: 3
(09-Feb-2004 08:36 pm)
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Assume all types can attack. What if a suicider sends ALL of his 4 units?

I hope we can have portion of away army's defense pts preserved. If a prov sent 100k(A)/60k(D) pts, he may get 20 out of 60 added to standing army. Maybe distance dependence: the farther, the less.

For defense when the prov is often attacked. 60k(A)/100k(D) may have like 50/110 when get mildly attacked and 40/120 when heavily and 30/130 when extremely?

The point is -- actions, situations and consequences change army's prespective.

Also, higher (lower) DPA prov when attacked should lose less (more) resources.

and maybe the more attack pts gives more resources?
Stonewall
Posts: 39
(09-Feb-2004 10:01 pm)
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omg, finally mehul at least makes a minor change, thank god.
Appie
Posts: 24
(10-Feb-2004 01:02 am)
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looks interesting... Just after oop it might be most fun..
LavenderGal
Posts: 6
(10-Feb-2004 02:39 am)
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er..u mean they gonna disband the normal 4/0 n 0/4 unit and we have to pay 75$ for a single soldier now????holy crap..........
EternalWanderer
Posts: 4
(10-Feb-2004 05:42 am)
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actually u're paying that amt to draft those soldiers rite now...4 gc/elite is still too cheap but is he keeping the insane casualty?
twistedvampire
Posts: 8
(10-Feb-2004 06:20 am)
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human merchant will be a fun thing to play next age
killkurt
Posts: 10
(10-Feb-2004 09:01 am)
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hope it didnt change the leet strength increase.
mreman
Posts: 2
(10-Feb-2004 09:53 am)
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Think I will try human rougue, see how it works.
feign
Posts: 9
(10-Feb-2004 11:27 am)
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when will the definite changes be out??
Demortor
(Posted as Tuba No5)
Posts: 1
(10-Feb-2004 01:17 pm)
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seems ok.
Timpen
Posts: 15
(10-Feb-2004 01:23 pm)
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So, these changes sucks, exactly the opposite of what i wanted.

/me wished for removed dual stat units.
scobad
Posts: 3
(10-Feb-2004 06:37 pm)
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And why would you have ARCHERS? Yeah they offer Defense...But a knight is double cost but double strenght? Did I read that right - Currently I have 4800 acres and 77,ooo knights with training 2k per day. So - Why would I even have lites>...Now we are going to see people that [email protected]@K fat but really are heavily fortified.It will all come down to SPACE. How many peeps can you put into your land...That is the KEY !
sticker2
Posts: 55
(10-Feb-2004 07:05 pm)
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whatever..
ilike the archers' changes
PapaVodka
Posts: 8
(10-Feb-2004 10:23 pm)
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Will the elies have huge #'s for offence and defence b/c the knights are as strong as the halfling elite an age or 2 ago
Lydia Cain
Posts: 12
(10-Feb-2004 10:28 pm)
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Huh, that looks pretty sweet like a dead man's gin
EternalWanderer
Posts: 5
(11-Feb-2004 01:32 am)
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so, the knights will get trained into elites, yes?
Mumin2
Posts: 76
(11-Feb-2004 06:46 am)
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very strange changes. Hope he give avians the best elites :PP
hunter1ofark
Posts: 2
(11-Feb-2004 03:44 pm)
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super fairy mystic this round, hope the changes are good for us,any hints in the wind of a level of spells corresponding with honor :P
supercle
Posts: 1
(11-Feb-2004 04:34 pm)
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Still, it's hard to prevent people from having full elite. Who says it cannot be achieved with 20% TG and a good amount of banks?
PapaVodka
Posts: 9
(11-Feb-2004 06:04 pm)
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I wanna go avian also! so hopefully the elites will turn out niceley


is there any chance tat we can see the elite stats sooner?

and how do elites work now?
Ziggy7483
Posts: 2
(11-Feb-2004 07:50 pm)
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Since proposed elites are double the maintenence of the proposed knights, it would be safe to guess the elite values will grow more than double those of the knights sometime in the age.

If elites have to grow to their values again, that would add a bit more to the military mix. Good job Mehul! Everyone who is complaining is probably using scripts!
last chance
Posts: 11
(11-Feb-2004 08:32 pm)
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They look very intresting, but i'm not so sure how they'll affect the the flow of the game since many people are use to the old ways. I remember the good old days of boats and before all these new races, but its good its being tested on Genesis.
last chance
Posts: 12
(11-Feb-2004 08:33 pm)
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They look very intresting, but i'm not so sure how they'll affect the the flow of the game since many people are use to the old ways. I remember the good old days of boats and before all these new races, but its good its being tested on Genesis.
Hotze
Posts: 22
(12-Feb-2004 09:01 am)
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Very interesting changes...

Going out with elites(no harm by mages) and defending with knights...
wisemega
Posts: 1
(12-Feb-2004 10:43 am)
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Why Mehul don't change FOG SPELL for other utilities, one example:

-A province with FOG lose less units (10%)
-Someone attack a province with FOG lose more units (10%)
-One undead attacks a province with FOG get less gains (15%)

can make more usefull the fog spell.
XxS15xSilviaxX
Posts: 1
(12-Feb-2004 01:04 pm)
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I guess i'll try undead merchant when the next age starts...
XerXesss
Posts: 4
(13-Feb-2004 02:45 am)
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Boys it's getting better:

I think the military numbers we're looking at for Genesis are:

- Unit #1 (1/1), $75, $0 maintenance
- Unit #2 (3/2), $250, $0.5
- Unit #3 (4/5), $600, $2
- Elite (*/*), $1200, $6

The idea is to make the units progressively stronger, but also significantly more costly. I'm not sure what these all-purpose units will do to attacking, so we may open up Conquest more to change the dynamic there.

Mehul

Like we all know already we need as much pop as possible so I think orc will be best with as main def unit knights and prob still high off elite.
Lahrio
(Posted as Duke Pug)
Posts: 36
(13-Feb-2004 05:45 am)
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Human Merchants???

Dwarf Generals are gonna RULE!!!! They have -25% Maintenance and General also has -25% Maintenance. -50%. LOL. I'll have a Full elite army and 5 Generals AND 50% better spy ops and such :P.

Dwarf Generals are gunna RULE especially with their big starts!!!
DethApostle BoD
(Posted as DApostle)
Posts: 2
(13-Feb-2004 06:58 am)
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I was going to try a Dwarf Attacker, was going off the idea.

It's back on now!
Game on.
mimango
Posts: 3
(13-Feb-2004 08:13 am)
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"Human Merchants???

Dwarf Generals are gonna RULE!!!! They have -25% Maintenance and General also has -25% Maintenance. -50%. LOL. I'll have a Full elite army and 5 Generals AND 50% better spy ops and such :P.

Dwarf Generals are gunna RULE especially with their big starts!!!"

Man, -25% and -25% isnt -50%, youre so dumb!

Players like you never get to the top :)

Hope they post the elite values here soon, cant wait!!!
XerXesss
Posts: 5
(13-Feb-2004 08:28 am)
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he's even more dumb than you thought he was ;)

warriors give -25% maintenance costs, not generals!

And yeah I'm waiting for the elite values too :P
Want to make my strat...
docter
Posts: 23
(13-Feb-2004 09:35 am)
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the changes r o.k....

they should have a test run on gen where the time is accelarated.

they shouls also try on gen to have whole kd's of 6 provs for one player.

that would be fun..and to make it easier accelerate time so it is great...
Lahrio
(Posted as Duke Pug)
Posts: 37
(13-Feb-2004 12:37 pm)
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OK OK

SHUTUP!!!
Lahrio
(Posted as Duke Pug)
Posts: 38
(13-Feb-2004 12:39 pm)
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it is only my second age.

It was free sold draft I was thinking of :)
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